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 Blood Angles VS Space Puppies

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Commissar Awesome
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PostSubject: Blood Angles VS Space Puppies   Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:24 pm

Okay, ive heard the banter and the complaints. Ive fought against both armies. (and beat them) Can someone give me a logical argument as to why one is better than the other? (Im not thick, i understand why i think one is better than the other but someone else give us your thoughts)

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Angles VS Space Puppies   Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:50 pm

Well there's 3 main differences...

Faster vehicles
furious charge/counterattack AND acute senses!!!
deep strike scatter

you have to pay for all of the upgrades so no biggy there. The armies aren't better just different...

People still aren't using them to their full potental. Remember rhino rush? That's the way to play them...

edit: right! Now im not on the iphone so can put out some very valid points without damaging my index finger!

Overall the thing comes down to cost - what u get for your points. Things are never overpowered just underpriced for their ability. Prime examples are TH/SS termies, Dark Elf Hydras, Lone Wolves, Death Company Dreads with Blood Talons (you get the idea).

If space marines were 6 points each I can guarantee that you would see more horde marine armies across the board...

Another thing with 5th edition is the survivability of mech and the impact of CC. The easiest way to wipe out a hundred man unit isn't to blast it but to win by 8 in CC. This is turn makes the unit LD 2 (generally fail) and either be caught instant wipe out or alternatively they cant regroup if you are within 6" resulting in a unit heading for the board.

I suppose I can summarise it easiest in listing all of the GOOD things about the codex's

SW

Logan
Thunderwolf Mounts on IC
Lving Lightning
Murderous Hurricane
Counterattack
Acute Senses (awesome due to a 3rd of the missions use this)
Wolf Scouts
Lone Wolf (WTF!!!!!!)
Grey Hunters (Bolter, CCW, BP, 2 special weapons that are SUPER cheap!)
Mark of the Wulfen in nearly every squad
Blood Claws (some people like them im not fussed)
Long Fangs
Predator (Cheap firebase)
Saga of the Bear
Saga of the Hunter
Saga of the Warrior Born
Wolf Standard
Wolftooth Necklace
Wolf Claws
Frost Blade

Total of 20

BA

Fast vehicles
Baal Pred (meh they're ok)
Assault squads (get cheaper vehicles, 2 Special Weapons)
Death Company
Death Company Dread
Sanguinary Priest (don't rate them)
Furioso Dread (not the librarian - 175 points!!! jesus!!!)
Chaplains (joining death company only)
Descent of angels (don't rate it as dropping troops are dead troops)
Mephiston (find him too expensive)
Blood Lance (very situational)
Frag Cannon (prefer having blood talons)
Seth (cheap and cheerful Smile)

Total 13

The other things in the codex are too expensive for what they do Storm Ravens, Libririan Dreads, Dante, Deep Striking Landraiders, Lemartes, Assault Termies (TH/SS), Sanguinary Guard, Tycho, Sanguinor

All of the SW and BA items i've listed are point efficient whereas the others above are TOO expensive or nothing to shout about.

Hope this clears it up a little...

my 2p
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Angles VS Space Puppies   Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:23 pm

Stupidly the BA meta game seems to be stuffing 5 assault marines in cheap razorbacks, armed with only a melta gun. This is backed up with fast vindicators (i play BA, but whose idea was that? 36" pie plate kill range). This is then usually led by a librarian or two. This is pretty much (IMO) going the same way as leaf blower guard. Lots of fast tanks spitting out heavy weapons fire, the odd assault marine jumping out and popping tanks, followed by vindi fire and some outflanking baals... I dont think this list is fluffy at all for a BA army.

In my eyes a BA army should have lots of jump troops (but dont deep strike them, i find they die so quickly if you do!) with sang priest support. with an elite chappy thrown in, lead by a librarian with jump pack. Support this with baals or vindis, and for fluff reasons a DC ( but dont even bother putting J.packs on them! bang them in a rhino to negate rage for as long as you can!)

An alternative... maybe slightly beardy list would be the tri land raider list. 3 10 man assault sqds, double meltas and power fists, 3 plain sang priests, 3 landraider cru/red with their discounts, and multi meltas. And seth... ok so the meta seems to be melta spam at the moment, but people seem to be heading towrds plasma. people hate the prospect of 1 land raider, give them 3 to worry about! Smile

As for the list itself, here are my opinions on units

HQ

forget generic CPT.. not even worth bothering with
Chaplain.. Nice cheap option that buffs sqds (always good!)
Libby.. has some good powers, and some not so good.. doesnt really compare with SW rune priests, i usually choose buff powers, and give him a J.pack
As for named chars... i wouldnt bother your paying to much, and the game is becoming hero hammer!, unless you take seth! hes a beast! And im not biased at all Wink I play flesh tearers Smile he can suffer against other marines, but against hordes or tanks hes great, has 4 wounds, a str 8 rending chainsword that hits at int or auto hits every 1 in B2B.
Honour guards i like, better than sang guard, can be kept resonably cheap.. but who uses hammer units these days? the amount of medium range high str high ap weapons out there makes you wonder whether they are worth it. But i do play them lol, champion and a power fist, combined with sang priest rules, makes them a little more hard wearing.

ELITES

chappy, nice to have chappys popping up in army lists again! good choice if you have 100pts spare, great to use as a unit buffer, link with sang priest.. a very dangerous unit!
Sang priests, i do rate them! Smile give a unit FNP and FC? so thats marines with str5 i5, a 3+ and 4+.. mix in a chappy on the charge, re rolls to hit!? yes please! They are IC so can be targeted in combat, try keep them at the back of the unit when the charge goes of so they cant get hit, hope for the wipeout and they will live. Dont bother giving them any upgrades( apart from j.pack), they dont actually want to be in CC... As for corbulo, not for me, to expensive and relying on that 1 re roll is a poor excuse!
furioso dread... blood talons... say no more! but ive been playing a libby dread lately, although costly, seem to be affective so far!
termie sqds, ok so now you have to pay more for TT/SS and unless they have a LR they are left behind. I dont use them, they just cant keep up, and im not paying 500+ points for 1 unti and LR
Techmarine.. whose idea was that? fluff reasons prob, any 1 have a use for him?
Sternies, actually pretty useful, but i never use them. You can make a great shooty BA army led by the none psycho tycho including these... But what self respecting flesh tearer shoots? Wink

TROOPS

Tac sqds/scout sqds have died for me. Assault sqds are cheaper without packs, can take 2 special weps, shoot them out the top of the rhino like the tac sqd used to.. this is the death for the tac sqd for me, only good for holding your back objective. But if that was the case, id use scouts with cloaks, cheaper and just as resiliant in cover.
Death company, can go crazy with options. If i play them, only take a p.fist, p.wep in unit and stick them in a rhino, cheapest most efficient way to use them.
Dc dread, loses 1 point of front armour, but has fleet, and none can stay my wrath, and an extra attack. making it actually quite fast ans survivable, with blood talons, deadly!
Assault sqds arre where the real meat of the list is, take at least 3 10 man units. be it in rhinos or J.Packs, spam them with melta, a power fist, support with sang priest if poss, and you have close on a unit of beserkers! and they can take and hold objectives!

FAST ATTACK

only units worth mentiong are; baals, attack bikes and speeders. they all fill the same roll, fire support. BA can end up lacking in firepower, you can make up for some of that here. 2 outflanking baals for hordes, 2 sqds of 2 MM attack bikes or speeders for mech/tank hunting. Great distraction units!

HEAVY SUPPORT

Devos have cheaper heavy weps than marine dex so can be worth it, although ive not used them
dreads, if your going for the all dread army.. heres some more.. i wouldnt bother
stormraven, another GW cash cow IMO, expensive and quite fragile, although if used properly quite possibly devastating. stick some dc with a chappy inside, and a dc dred on the back send that lot in, charge straight out. as they are assault vehicles. that should give your opponent somthing to try and shift while the rest of your army gets stuck in.
Vindis, with siegeshields are great. ignore all terrain, move 12" throw out a 24" str 10 pie plate... BOOM!
Preds, in my eyes are worth taking again now in this list. move 12 fire 1, move 6 fire all! no longer the choice between sit still and get auto hit in CC but fire all and still make them roll to hit you in CC!

Ok ive prob missed stuff, so ill prob edit this later lol.. thats my views on the BA dex, someone want to do a SW overview?

Like i said this is only my opinion, there are a million and 1 ways to play any list, so constructive crit pls Smile

Liam
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Raga

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Angles VS Space Puppies   Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:05 am

Personally, I feel that as Space Machines, they both fail fundamentally anyway....so who cares?
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